How do I live out my Christian Faith through my finances? Replay of my interview with Paul Granger

[00:00:00] Ralph Estep, Jr.: So the question for today is how do you truly live out your Christian faith through your finances? It's a question many of us grapple with daily. Well stay tuned as we replay an enlightening interview I had on Paul Granger’s show, a man who made radical choices to follow God's calling.

[00:00:23] Ralph Estep, Jr.: Did you catch yesterday's show on why a good credit score matters even in retirement?

[00:00:28] Ralph Estep, Jr.: If not, I'm going to encourage you. Head over to askralph.com to give it a listen. It might just change how you view your financial future.

[00:00:38] Ralph Estep, Jr.: Well now, let's dive into a message from one of our listeners. And Caroline has sent us this message. It says this, it says "Ralph, I've been struggling to align my spending habits with my Christian values. It feels like there's always tension between saving for the future and being generous.

[00:00:53] Ralph Estep, Jr.: How can I find the right balance?" Well Caroline, let me start by telling you that is a question I get asked all the time. It's a very thoughtful question and it hits home for many of us, very close to home. So before we dive in, I want to remind you and all of our listeners that your questions are the heartbeat of this show. And I'm going to encourage you to go to our website.

[00:01:12] Ralph Estep, Jr.: That's at askralph.com. You'll see a little microphone icon there. Just click on that microphone icon and say what's on your mind and I'll share it on the next show.

[00:01:24] Ralph Estep, Jr.: Well, I'm thrilled you're joining me today. Thank you for joining me on this journey together. I know your time is precious and I am truly honored you've chosen to spend it with me.

[00:01:34] Ralph Estep, Jr.: So let's ground ourselves with a little scripture today, and this comes to us from the book of Proverbs 3:9-10, and it says this. "Honor the Lord with your wealth, with the firstfruits of all your crops; then your barns will be filled to overflowing, and your vats will brim over with new wine."

[00:01:54] Ralph Estep, Jr.: And that quite frankly sets the stage perfectly for our topic today.

[00:02:00] Ralph Estep, Jr.: Well now let's, without further ado, let's turn it over to my interview with Paul Granger. Let me tell you a little bit about Paul. Paul and his family have been living and serving in Richmond, Virginia since 2008. And they have made some incredible leaps of faith. They've pursued seemingly impossible housing situations, leaving their jobs to follow God's calling more deeply. Paul has personally been involved in inner city ministries since 2005. He's been focusing on shepherding others as they see seek how to love God and love others. He's currently serving as the Interim Campus Director of YWAM City Lights and hosts the "Where did you see God?" Podcast.

[00:02:39] Ralph Estep, Jr.: And that's exactly where this interview came from. So in that conversation, Paul and I shared how living a financially secure Christian life isn't about accumulating wealth, but it's about trusting God's provision and using our resource to serve others. We had a great talk about the importance of community and making financial decisions and how radical generosity can transform not just our lives, but the lives of those around us.

[00:03:04] Ralph Estep, Jr.: You know, one thing that stuck with me from the chat was Paul's perspective on risk. He said this, he said, "Sometimes, the riskiest thing we can do is play it safe and ignore God's call to step out in faith." It's a powerful reminder that our financial security ultimately comes from God, not from our bank balance.

[00:03:22] Paul Granger: Well, Ralph, I'm excited to talk. And before we jump in, what is it that you really want people to know about who you are?

[00:03:32] Ralph Estep, Jr.: The most important thing for me to people take away is that I am saved. That's the most important to me because I think there's character there.

[00:03:41] Ralph Estep, Jr.: And I want people to understand that I'm just like them. You know, I've been down that road, you know, I'm saved by grace, not by my own works. So if you ask me that, the simple answer is I'm saved guy. I'm a sinner just like everybody else.

[00:03:57] Paul Granger: Yeah. You know, it's funny sometimes when somebody's answering a question like that, there's a moment that pops out to me.

[00:04:04] Paul Granger: And as you were talking, it was not by my own works, which I feel like is very counterintuitive and counterculture. I mean, we're conditioned to get better at things so that we can do things. But what you're telling me is this thing that defines who you are, that you're saved isn't because of your own works.

[00:04:23] Paul Granger: What does that actually mean?

[00:04:24] Ralph Estep, Jr.: So I heard a pastor one time say this, and I think it's the best way to explain Christianity in a nutshell. And that is picture this, you're a little kid. It's Christmas morning. You can't wait to run downstairs. There's all these Christmas gifts under the Christmas tree, and they're all sitting there.

[00:04:41] Ralph Estep, Jr.: And Christianity is really as simple as this. The gifts are there. Do you choose to open them? Because it's really that simple, Paul. And so that's what I mean by that, is that I chose to take the gift that was given to me. I didn't earn it. I didn't work for it. Now there's things that I need to do to keep it in my view.

[00:05:00] Ralph Estep, Jr.: I maybe keep is the wrong word to use, but there are things that I want to do because now, you know, I'm washed by the blood. You know, I've got that Holy spirit dwelling in me, but it truly was a gift. It was the gift that on Christmas morning, I chose to open it. It's really that simple.

[00:05:17] Paul Granger: And so if we use that analogy, you know, there are kids in the world that have always known what Christmas is.

[00:05:21] Paul Granger: And if they see a tree, they're looking for gifts. There are other kids in the world that have no concept of this idea. And so in the same way, there are people in the world that are familiar with Christianity and others who are unfamiliar or have a false understanding. How did you come to understand that there was even a gift?

[00:05:39] Paul Granger: And what did it look like for you to actually accept that gift?

[00:05:43] Ralph Estep, Jr.: Yeah, that's a good question. And so I came to my salvation at around age 13 and it was a kind of a couple of different things going on at once. My aunt became a missionary. Her and her husband, they served on the good Samaritan, and they did a lot of work down in Haiti. And she came back from a missionary, and you know, she was on fire, you know, and as a 13-year-old guy, I'm thinking, what in the world happened there?

[00:06:06] Ralph Estep, Jr.: Because I never knew her to be this on fire Christian. And to be very candid with you, Paul, she kind of scared me because she said, look, you know, if you don't figure this out, you're going to burn in hell. And I was like, ouch. Nobody wants to do that. Well, at the same time, one of my biggest mentors in my life was my grandfather on my dad's side.

[00:06:24] Ralph Estep, Jr.: And my grandfather was a Southern guy, simple dude, but he always would say to me, look, son, Seek your own salvation. Seek your own salvation. And I never really put two and two together. One day I'm over at his house and you know, in, in his faith and a lot of people, I guess you could call him sort of Baptist.

[00:06:42] Ralph Estep, Jr.: That's what I practice now. I'm a Baptist. But the pastor of the church would come by to have a conversation, you know, like Thursday afternoon, let's have a chat. And I remember I was over there. I spent a lot of time with my grandfather. I was over there just hanging out with my grandfather, my grandmother. One afternoon, this pastor shows up.

[00:06:58] Ralph Estep, Jr.: And I was like, this guy's really cool. Like I can relate to him, and he didn't hit me over the head with the Bible. And he wasn't pointing at me and tell me I'm going to hell. He just made a really simple question. He says, listen, Ralph, if you died tonight, do you know where you're going? And I said, you know what?

[00:07:12] Ralph Estep, Jr.: I really can't answer that. And he said, do you want to know the answer? I said, well, absolutely. He goes, well, I'll make it really simple for you. Do you want to accept Christ as your personal savior? And that was the time, Paul. That's when I did it. And you know, did I feel like all these golden domes opened up and the light shined on me and the earthquake.

[00:07:31] Ralph Estep, Jr.: No, no. And that's what I think some people get hung up on. They think that this salvation is going to be this moment. It's like, this is God. You are one of mine. But it didn't happen like that for me. But, but that's the truth of it. You know, that's where I came to know it. And then once I came to know it at 13, I truly believe there's a thing called sanctification walk, and I think God has put things in front of me where it's like, oh, Ralph, go down this route.

[00:07:56] Ralph Estep, Jr.: Oh, Ralph, go down this route. He's always been right here on my shoulder, you know, ever since that moment. So I think he's guided me, you know, like, like you talked about in this discussion today, you know, let's see where God takes us. I talk about this on my podcast show all the time. It's not about the destination.

[00:08:14] Ralph Estep, Jr.: It's about the journey. And that's the cool thing about living as a Christian. If you really get it, it's all about that journey. It's embracing that journey. It's enjoying that journey. Because the truth is, I don't know what God's got in store for me next, but here's the cool thing, Paul, he's got me in his palm of his hand.

[00:08:33] Ralph Estep, Jr.: He's got my back. He will never leave me for, nor forsake me. So I hope that answers your question. I probably went all around the way to get there, but that's kind of the way I'd like to talk. So.

[00:08:42] Paul Granger: Yeah, when you were talking about this sanctification walk and so it gives this impression and you mentioned journey that it's not about becoming perfect, but actually walking with God and being transformed by God in that journey. So what does that look like in your life?

[00:08:59] Paul Granger: Because again, the human experience is normally you need to become an expert in a thing, or you need to become better in a thing. But at age 13, you were suddenly introduced to this, this being, this supernatural encompassing being that utterly changed the direction of your life. So what does that sanctification walk look like for you?

[00:09:19] Ralph Estep, Jr.: I got to be very honest with you. It's liberating. And you might think that's a strange thing to say. Well, see, I'm an accountant by trade. That's what my, that's what my main job is. Well, as an accountant, guess what? There's preciseness to it. There's accuracy to it. There, there is a perfectionist part to that.

[00:09:35] Ralph Estep, Jr.: So one of the coolest things about my life is that in my sanctification walk or my relationship with Christ, I don't have to be perfect. The debits don't need to equal the credits. The income statement, the balance sheet, and all those, they could be all kinds of out of whack and guess what? He still loves me.

[00:09:53] Ralph Estep, Jr.: So for me, it was a liberating situation where I didn't have to worry so much. Does it all add up? Does it make sense? Does it work? And, and to me, that was just so liberating.

[00:10:04] Paul Granger: It's funny. I, while you were talking, I felt like to pull up my phone to see what the verse of the moment was. And I say moment, because the new widget I have, the old one was once a day verses, and now this one's every hour.

[00:10:18] Paul Granger: So, sometimes I'll see a verse and I'm like, oh, that's good, and then I'll come back later, and it's gone. But, in this case, it's Philippians 3:8, and it says, "What is more, I consider everything a loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them garbage, that I may gain Christ."

[00:10:39] Paul Granger: And I think it's interesting that you talk about being an accountant, because you're right. That is very precise and specific, and in fact, more often than not, the idea of accounting is to create more wealth, or to at least stop loss. That's the, that's the goal. And then meanwhile, Christ is like, yeah, I want to invite you to loss.

[00:11:00] Paul Granger: The Apostle Paul is saying, well, I consider everything of value a loss. And so you're living simultaneously in this reality that is very practical. You have people that are going to you for your services that may not know Christ and are just like, Ralph, I need you to get my numbers in order. And you know this greater reality where it's like this upside-down kingdom where the things that we see as valuable might not be in the things that we see as unvaluable might be.

[00:11:30] Paul Granger: So how do you live in that balance living in a world that doesn't understand the reality that you're coming to know?

[00:11:36] Ralph Estep, Jr.: And that's one of the reasons I launched my podcast, is that I wanted to bring those two worlds together. It's the faith and finance because the two things really go hand in hand.

[00:11:46] Ralph Estep, Jr.: If you think about it, we're all charged to be good stewards of what God has given us. And if you're not a Christian, if you don't understand what the word steward means, it means basically God has entrusted you with stuff and he expects you to do well with your stuff. So for me, I felt like God was pulling me in a direction of saying to me, Ralph, look, you've got this audience of people coming in to see you.

[00:12:11] Ralph Estep, Jr.: You have a direct impact. You're a missionary. I actually call my podcast, it's almost like an evangelistic outreach at this point, because what I try to do in my life, what I try to do with every client I get to meet is that, okay, look, I know you want to get your finances in order. Let's answer the question why do you want to get your finances? Because getting them in, or look, and this is a truth. I've had, I've been very blessed. I've been very wealthy. I've been all those things, right? You get to a certain point and you're like, it didn't fill my tank. And see, so many people spend their whole lives chasing after what's going to fill that tank.

[00:12:50] Ralph Estep, Jr.: And when you finally realize that it's not your tank that you're trying to fill. It's that relationship with the savior that you're trying to fill, then everything starts to make sense. When I say to a client, listen, your business isn't doing well. Why is that? Well, you know, I'm doing this, I'm doing that.

[00:13:08] Ralph Estep, Jr.: Have you ever stopped and prayed about it? And they'll look at me like, did you, did what? Pray doesn't bring people in the door. I said, yeah, it might actually. Because God meets us all along that path. Right? And that's been a thing for me. So that's how I'm able to meld those two worlds together because that's the key to the whole thing to me, is you need to have a purpose and a God driven purpose, in my humble view makes everything else fall into place. Why do you want to, why do you want to do your taxes? Well, I have to do my taxes because if not, the IRS is going to come after me. Yeah, that's fine. But what did, what did Jesus say? Give unto Caesar what is Caesar's and give unto God what is God's.

[00:13:52] Ralph Estep, Jr.: So if I have a client that comes into me and says, Ralph, you know, look, I mean, I hate paying taxes. This is terrible. I'll be like, yeah, I hear you. Nobody likes to pay taxes. But if you are a Christian person, if you have a character of being a Christian, you're supposed to do what's right. So once you know that, then, you know, I can help, I can help you get to where you want to go.

[00:14:13] Ralph Estep, Jr.: If we have this set of core beliefs and say, look, it's kind of like when I used to play football, right? You got on a football field, there's rules, you know, there's rules that we all agree to. Nobody goes down to football with hand grenades. Okay. So if I can give you a set of rules to live by, you know I'm not one of these legalistic dudes. It's like, you must do this human. A basic set of rules of how you're going to live your life, then that's going to make all those other decisions so much easier because you've got a core to go back to. I wrote a book and the book is called the Gospel of Entrepreneurship: How to bring Jesus into your business.

[00:14:49] Ralph Estep, Jr.: And the basic premise of this book is that you don't check your Christianity at the door when you go in the business. It's who you are, it's your character. And if it defines who you are, then everything else just goes out from that. So I've found it very easy to pull those two worlds together. And every day when I do my podcast and yes, it's a daily, it's a grind, but it's only about 10 minutes long.

[00:15:12] Ralph Estep, Jr.: I always start with scripture. You know, we'll have a topic, a client or a listener or call and say, Hey Ralph, I was wondering about, you know, I give an example. Like I just, I recorded a show today that I'll play next Friday and it's on, what do I do if I inherit property with a sibling?

[00:15:29] Ralph Estep, Jr.: Now look, maybe we're all going to go through that, right? Well, that's a real simple example. You know, okay. Okay. You, you, we own this house now together. What are we going to do? Well, I can answer that in a very secular answer. How much can we get each, right?

[00:15:42] Ralph Estep, Jr.: Let's maximize that return. But if I take a step back and I say, God wants harmony. God wants harmony in your family, then I put a different set of glasses on to look at this. You know, how do we, how do we manage this situation where, you know, brother and sister have inherited a house? It's not simply like, “Oh, I want to get this and I want to get that.”

[00:16:03] Ralph Estep, Jr.: Then it's like, “Oh, wait a second. There's a core set of beliefs I have here.” So I always try to bring Christianity into it. But that's how I, that's how I married those two worlds. And look, Paul, the truth is some people are never going to get it. They don't understand that. They don't, you know, Ralph's this Holy Roller guy.

[00:16:18] Ralph Estep, Jr.: And you know, when I was younger, it might've bothered me, but at this point, I just don't care. You know, I just don't care because I know the reality. The reality is I will stand before the savior one day and he's going to look at me and say, Ralph, well done. Good and faithful servant. That's what I'm working towards.

[00:16:35] Ralph Estep, Jr.: If I can impact one person and help them today. Maybe they're struggling with their finances. Maybe they're struggling in their marriage. Maybe they're struggling with their taxes or what, whatever it is. Trying to figure out how to pay, put money on the table for the kids to, to have food. If I can help 1 person, then I've done my job for the kingdom today.

[00:16:52] Ralph Estep, Jr.: And I think that's what we all have to do. We've all got to figure out where do we fit in. You can fill your bank account. You can fill your garage with nice cars. You can build the most beautiful house, but it doesn't mean anything at the end, does it, Paul? Unless it's for the kingdom. And I'm not saying that you can't be successful.

[00:17:10] Ralph Estep, Jr.: I'm not saying that you can't be wealthy. Because the truth of matters, I see this in my podcast all the time. You will never be able to help someone else if you don't figure out how to do it yourself. You're never going to be charitable until you figure out how to manage your own money.

[00:17:26] Paul Granger: Now let's talk about the believers. Those who are in the same boat as you, where it's the, you know, you're at age 13, you discovered this God, you discovered this reality that's different than what you knew. You discovered this scripture that talks about God as provider. It talks about God meeting our needs, that talks about how the love of money is a root of all evil, that talks against financial fear.

[00:17:51] Paul Granger: There are a lot of believers that on Sunday will believe these things. That God is provider. But then the rest of the week will succumb to financial fear or financial frustration. Why is it you think even strong believers succumb to financial fear and frustration? And how do we not?

[00:18:10] Ralph Estep, Jr.: And that's the million-dollar question.

[00:18:13] Ralph Estep, Jr.: But the Bible talks about is like you can't serve two masters. And I think that's the answer to your question, Paul, is I think we're trying to serve two masters. Because if you think about it, the real answer is to let it go. Completely, let it go. Well, how many people want to do that when they're, when they, you know, they're looking at their table and they got their little kids, they're sitting at the table, wondering where the next meal is coming from.

[00:18:39] Ralph Estep, Jr.: It's so hard. I mean, it's easy for me to say, well, just let it go. You know, surrender. And I did a podcast a few weeks ago about surrendering and all. That sounds good. But I think the answer, Paul, is that we try to live in two worlds. We try to live in the world that's all around us and then we try to live in the spiritual world.

[00:18:57] Ralph Estep, Jr.: And it's tough, man. I don't have all the answers. I don't. I wish I could tell you, here's the magic pill. Take this and it'll solve it. It's difficult, man. It is really hard. But the thing is, I go back to, are you honoring God in your budget? That's a good place to start. Are you honoring God in your decision making?

[00:19:17] Ralph Estep, Jr.: Are you honoring God in all those things? Because see, what happens is as you start to surrender those things, for example, let's say you set up a budget. Did you think about how God wants you to spend your money in your budget? Did you put tithing into that? Did you put some sort of support for missionaries?

[00:19:34] Ralph Estep, Jr.: Did you put some sort of support for growing your faith or see, making sure your children have faith? See, and that's what I'm talking about. Paul's like, you don't have to live in that, in that silo of, well, today's Sunday, I got to be a Christian. Today's Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday.

[00:19:50] Ralph Estep, Jr.: Yeah. I'm still a Christian, but man, I got bills to pay, Ralph. Yeah. But are you putting God first? Because I think there is a way to do both. And listen, I battled this myself. And then forget that I just turned 50. I'll be 52 in September. I turned 50 two years ago. And man, I have bought the motorcycles. I've bought the shiny red Corvette.

[00:20:12] Ralph Estep, Jr.: I've bought the boat. I had the beach house. I had all those things. Right. And then I realized that this is not filling my tank. And I had to start thinking about, okay, every decision now I've got to think, what is the kingdom impact on this? And it might be a fancy way of saying it to a believer. They understand what Ralph's saying.

[00:20:31] Ralph Estep, Jr.: But let's talk about a non-believer for a second. What I mean by that is what is the purpose for what you're doing? Is your purpose so you can look good on social media. Like, “Oh, look what Ralph's got a nice red, shiny Corvette. Oh, cool. Yeah, that's great.” What does that do for you? Nothing. And that's the reality.

[00:20:49] Ralph Estep, Jr.: So if you ask me, Paul, how do you deal with that? I think it's a minute by minute, hour by hour, day by day decision to say, look, yes, I'm a Christian on Sunday, but guess what? I'm a Christian on Monday too. And so when I'm standing at the checkout line and I'm making a decision of whether I'm going to buy this or that, and I have limited resources, I say, you know what, I want to give more church this Sunday.

[00:21:14] Ralph Estep, Jr.: So I'm going to decide to do this. And then I think what happens is over time, that the Holy spirit grabs hold of you, and it shows you here, here, Ralph, look at this. Open your life in this area, open your life in this area. And I wish I had all the answers, but here's the thing you need to understand also. I tell people this all the time. Guess what, Paul? You're going to fail; you're going to make mistakes.

[00:21:37] Ralph Estep, Jr.: You're going to make big financial mistakes probably. Everybody does. I've been there, done that. This is what I do for a living, and I make financial mistakes. So you got to be willing to forgive yourself just as Jesus has forgiven you for your sins. You got to forgive yourself. But that doesn't mean you forget it.

[00:21:53] Ralph Estep, Jr.: It means that you learn from that. You know, write it down, master your budget, master your finances, not for the purpose of, well, how much money can I put in the bank? But for the purpose of, you know, maybe God's got a plan, and I really need to get this stuff figured out because maybe he's going to be, maybe there's going to be a missionary coming into church on Sunday who God's going to touch my heart and say, write them a check to help them.

[00:22:16] Ralph Estep, Jr.: If I've not done and honored the things that God wanted me to do, I'm never going to be able to do that.

[00:22:21] Paul Granger: Yeah. Yeah. You know, and you talked about this idea of sacrifice. You know, there's this one part about doing your due diligence, like thinking about what is my financial situation? What does God bless me with?

[00:22:32] Paul Granger: How can I serve others? But then there's this other level of sacrifice where it's beyond your capacity, beyond your desire, and the moments that we struggle with that, I think, are moments that maybe put a spotlight on what we actually believe about God. We actually believe about who He's called us to be.

[00:22:51] Paul Granger: Because if we are saying, I'd love to do that, but I can't because I have this bill coming up, what we're actually saying is I don't actually believe that God will take care of that other situation. I don't believe that God's actually capable. I think I need to have the money in order to do it. And here's what's hard is on a human level, you do, right? The things cost money. But you even look at scripture and there's moments where things cost money and yet somehow God miraculously provided whether it was money in the mouth of a fish or multiplying bread and fish and so that's the deeper thing that's going on.

[00:23:32] Paul Granger: We might think it's just a financial issue, but for believers, we are often invited to stop and say, what do I actually believe about God as provider? What do I actually value? Am I valuing, like you noted, the reputation or the security? Or am I valuing something greater? And if we are Christians, if we are Christ followers, we're choosing to follow a guy who gave it all up.

[00:23:56] Paul Granger: Like, not just in earthly form, not just as a human who's like, the son of man has nowhere to lay his head, but, Philippians 2, you know, Jesus, in very nature God, did not count equality with God something to be grasped, but lowered himself to the form of a servant to the point of death. And so this is the hard question, Ralph, is Are we really interested in that?

[00:24:19] Paul Granger: Like, are we interested in our Christianity not just being a label that we wear, or something that we do on Sunday, but something that mirrors that level of sacrificial love that Jesus demonstrated? So, how do we do that when we still live in a world where bills need to be paid, where expenses come up.

[00:24:39] Paul Granger: How do we live in that unconventional way?

[00:24:42] Ralph Estep, Jr.: Paul, I think you're going to not like my answer

[00:24:45] Paul Granger: because

[00:24:46] Ralph Estep, Jr.: it's going to be a non-answer. I don't know. No, because what you're talking about is if each of us was said, “Oh, you go take up the cross.” How many of us would take up the cross? Look, I'd love to say, “Oh, I would do that, Paul.”

[00:25:00] Ralph Estep, Jr.: You know, I'd be the first one out there. I'll be charging along. I got that cross. I'm going to Calvary. I'm doing it, but guess what, man? I don't know. And that's the thing. Like when you were talking, the thing I kept thinking in my head was, man, we are really in a spiritual battle. You know, I always say the devil is a liar.

[00:25:19] Ralph Estep, Jr.: And I think it's real easy to say you pick a side, because I think we've gotten to a point in our world where there are two sides. And a lot of people don't like to say that a lot of people are like, Ralph, man, that's a harsh reality. I said, but that's the reality, is you either pick the side of Christ or you pick the side of the other, not, not Christ.

[00:25:36] Ralph Estep, Jr.: Okay. And you're right. I mean, that's so hard because again, I think the best way that I could say to solve that is to realize this is not my home. It's my temporary home. I think Carrie Underwood had a song about that. This is my temporary home. And when you think of things in that context, but it's so hard because man, we are bombarded minute by minute, second by second with stuff, we're bombarded with,

[00:26:03] Ralph Estep, Jr.: oh, you got to have this beautiful life. Everybody on Facebook does this. Everybody on Instagram has this. My kids are, you know, griping at me because, “Hey, how come the neighbors have a swimming pool, daddy, but we don't. Hey, how come, you know, when we go on vacation, we take the tent and go down to the lake.”

[00:26:21] Ralph Estep, Jr.: But man, the people down the street go to Disney world, dad. And man, that's where the rubber meets the road, Paul. And the only thing I can say is this. You do the best you can. You pray about it. You say, God, look, I don't have all the answers. Like one of the things I pray about every single night of my life is God, grant me your wisdom because I don't have it. Show me what you'll have for me.

[00:26:46] Ralph Estep, Jr.: And then you can only pray that he's going to give you enough to get you where you can get to. It's kind of like a car, right? You go out and look at your car and you say, I'd really like to have a Ferrari. That's a beautiful car. And it's sitting out in front of you, and you could stare at that car all day and you can tell it's a Ferrari.

[00:27:04] Ralph Estep, Jr.: Well, guess what? It's still a Ford. And why I say that is because, you know, sometimes as Christians, I think we beat ourselves up into this belief that we are going to be some kind of like walk on water, just like Jesus. Well, guess what? Maybe that's not your role. Now, look, I think we're getting to a time in our world where you might have to put your head on the plate. Like, I think we're getting to that point. You know, like a lot of people, don't like talk about what Ralph talks about. Ralph gets a little bit out there, but like, but I truly believe that I think there is a day coming when you're going to have to make a decision.

[00:27:36] Ralph Estep, Jr.: Do I stand for Christ, or do I look the other direction? And I think Christ was saying this himself when he was going to the cross, you know, forgive them father. They know not what they do. So, so I think all these things can be tied together, but no, Paul, that's the million-dollar question. And like I said, the only thing I can say is that do your best.

[00:27:55] Ralph Estep, Jr.: Do your best, but not just your best. Be prayerful about it. You know, here's the thing about Christians. I get, it cracks me up every day. We'd like to talk, right? But how many times do we just listen? How many times do we get quiet? I play softball on a church softball league and each of us, instead of having our names on the back, we have a Bible verse, and I picked one.

[00:28:18] Ralph Estep, Jr.: I thought it was funny at the time, but it really made sense. It's Jesus wept. Well, he didn't say anything. He wept. Well, think about that for a second. The savior of the universe wept. We're going to cry too guys. That's, if you're Christian walking to walk, you're going to weep because things are going to happen to you.

[00:28:43] Ralph Estep, Jr.: Like, why did that, I'll give you a great example. When I started my own accounting practice, my wife and I, she was about 33, I was 32. We literally had been in our practice for three months and my wife was diagnosed with breast cancer. Guess what, Paul? A month before that, we got health insurance.

[00:29:01] Ralph Estep, Jr.: Tell me there's not a God. Let me tell you right now, God had us at that point. Now she's great. She's been cancer free for almost 20 years now. But can you imagine like, here we are, we got two young kids. I think they were maybe three and six at the time, just started our own business and God goes, wapop! Cancer.

[00:29:23] Ralph Estep, Jr.: And the coolest thing about that whole thing. So, I don't want to talk about a lot about my wife, but she was raised Roman Catholic. And when she got cancer, she came to me and she goes, Ralph, she goes, I'm really worried about, you know, what does this next step of my life look like? And I said, well, let's get in the Bible and talk about it.

[00:29:39] Ralph Estep, Jr.: And she says, I'm allowed to read the Bible? And I said, what do you mean? And I went to Catholic high school, but I didn't really get that deep into it. And she goes, Ralph, I was always taught I'm too stupid to understand it. So we went out and bought her a study Bible, Paul, and she caught on fire for the Lord.

[00:29:58] Ralph Estep, Jr.: It was the most amazing, everybody around is like, “Oh, Ralph and Jennifer, my wife's name is Jennifer, has joined a cult.”

[00:30:04] Paul Granger: They

[00:30:04] Ralph Estep, Jr.: must've joined a cult. Like she's got cancer and she's getting through this, and people aren't losing their stuff. Like. And it was so cool to watch it, and she would come to me, and she would say, Ralph, she goes, and I'm not picking on Catholics.

[00:30:15] Ralph Estep, Jr.: Don't misunderstand me. She goes, I can't find it here where it says the word Pope. I said, yes, not in there. And she goes, and I can't find in here where it says that I'm not supposed to eat meat on Fridays. I said, yeah, it's not in there. She goes, I'm so confused. She goes, this scripture is, is I can understand it, Ralph.

[00:30:35] Ralph Estep, Jr.: It makes sense to me. It's, it's all about my relationship with Christ one on one. I'm like, yeah, open the gift. Don't open the gift. It's really that simple. Sorry. I know it took a tangent there, but that's the way life is, right? Like, so when you talk about, you know, does God provide this, I can look back at my life and so, so many times I give you another personal example story, right? This is 2024 and 2018, in 2018, my wife and I were at each other's throats. Okay. And she decided I'm done with this marriage, and she left. Now, look, I'm going to be very candid with you. I was a tyrant. I was a jerk. You know? So I can get why she left.

[00:31:14] Ralph Estep, Jr.: Well, she went, moved to another state, got engaged to somebody else. I waited a month or two. I did the exact same thing. And this whole time I'm going, God's saying to me, Ralph, he says, wait a second. Whoa, whoa, wait a second, dude. I brought you guys together for a purpose. So my relationship that I had started falling apart, it was a, it was an unmitigated disaster.

[00:31:35] Ralph Estep, Jr.: And I reached out to my wife, and I said, how are things going with you? Oh, Ralph, they're not great. And I said, what do you think we should do? I said, “You want to come home?” And she goes, “I just don't know if I can do that.” And I said, “Well, can we try?” So Paul, two days before the divorce was finalized, God brought us back together. You know, and we're going to celebrate 24 years together this September.

[00:31:59] Ralph Estep, Jr.: Has it been perfect? No, because guess what? We're both imperfect people. But don't tell me there's no God, right? Because God had a mission. God had a purpose. God had a plan for our life. And as much as the two of us were trying to take it in a whole another direction, he brought it right back to the central thing and said to me, that's been amazing.

[00:32:20] Ralph Estep, Jr.: Like, I, I thank God every day that even a fool like me, who was, like I said, I was not a good person. I was a timer, dude. I had no concept of what it was like to love my wife like Christ loves the church. You know, and I challenge every man. Like, I almost feel like starting a mission on this is like, I challenge every man to love your wife like Christ loved the church. Because you don't get it day to day, right? But then there's going to come that day when you're like, man, she doesn't love me like she used to. And you have to ask yourself, well, do you love her the way Christ loved you? Dude, that's what it comes down to. Like, it's all about that relationship.

[00:32:56] Ralph Estep, Jr.: It's a relationship with Christ, relationship with your wife, relationship with your family, relationship with your children and knowing all the time that, you know, you might not come from a place where that was a good model. Like you might not have had a model of a good father or a good mother, whatever that looks like.

[00:33:11] Ralph Estep, Jr.: But man, Christ has got a response for that. He can help you along that. You just have to ask him to come into your life and show you the way.

[00:33:20] Paul Granger: Yeah, you hit two important things that I hope people don't miss. And so one of them is, do we actually believe that God can do the impossible and unexpected? And so the impossible was your marriage coming back together. I, you, it's not, we're separated. I'm a tyrant. Like she doesn't love me. Like, there's no, there's no way this could work. And then God's like, actually, I can, I can make this work. And you're going to be surprised by how I change you in the midst of the unexpected.

[00:33:50] Paul Granger: Like when, when you finally got health insurance, you didn't know cancer was around the corner, you know, and God provided. And this is something that I've had the privilege of being able to learn particularly over the last almost six years where I haven't gotten a traditional paycheck. I've been basically a full-time volunteer ministry and over and over and over, I've been able to see God provide in unexpected, impossible ways.

[00:34:15] Paul Granger: And so what you and I know is that's actually who God is. He is real. Does that mean he will always do it in the way that we expect him to do it? No, because he's trying to do immeasurably more than we're asking for, imagining. But he is capable. Anything that we would put a stamp on to say, this is impossible, therefore, I need to take control of this.

[00:34:33] Paul Granger: God's like, actually, for man, what's impossible is possible for me. And so, that's the one piece. And I've already forgotten the other piece. I don't even remember what it was I was going to say. But think about how much

[00:34:46] Ralph Estep, Jr.: reassurance there is in what you just said, Paul. Is that you can let go.

[00:34:51] Paul Granger: Yeah,

[00:34:51] Ralph Estep, Jr.: you can let go.

[00:34:54] Ralph Estep, Jr.: I've heard it say, let go, let God. But again, you got to let go first, right? Because God gives you that free will. You want to hold on tight, Ralph? You want to hide or hold on tight, Paul? Hey, God's going to say, let it go. Do it. Go do it. You, you make your plans, Ralph. You make your plans, Paul. I'm going to sit back here and left.

[00:35:11] Ralph Estep, Jr.: Because I already know what's going to happen, right? And you're going to come back to me and you're going to go, wow, man, I, I screwed that up, God. Are you and I still cool? Like we're still friends? And that's the coolest thing about it. Think about that relationship. No matter what you do, no matter what you say, no matter how ugly your life gets, the savior is still with you.

[00:35:34] Ralph Estep, Jr.: Now that might be, a lot of people might argue with me and say, Ralph, you know, I don't believe that. Like, I believe once you're saved, you're saved for good. Like you didn't, you didn't buy it in the first place, and I don't believe you can lose it. So if you think about it, Paul, that relationship that you built.

[00:35:51] Ralph Estep, Jr.: All have sinned. You're going to foul it up. You're going to make mistakes. You're going to say the wrong thing to your wife. You're going to say the wrong thing to your kid. You're going to make a stupid decision, you know, but God's still there with you. And there's such reassurance in that. And like you said, you are not getting a traditional paycheck. But what does it talk about the Bible?

[00:36:10] Ralph Estep, Jr.: The birds, you know, they still eat.

[00:36:11] Paul Granger: Yeah.

[00:36:11] Ralph Estep, Jr.: They don't worry about where the next meal's coming from. Right? But that's amazing. If you think about it.

[00:36:17] Paul Granger: Yeah. And here’s what's interesting. Yes, we're invited to be willing to, to lose for the sake of Christ, but what's even more beautiful is, and I'll read the passage again, Philippians 3:8, what is more, I consider everything a loss, or in another version, it says, I consider it all rubbish, garbage trash compared to the surpassing worth of knowing Christ.

[00:36:41] Paul Granger: In other words, the relationship with Christ is so valuable. Everything else in comparison is garbage, is junk. And you and I have had plenty of moments where we had junk before us, and we had no problem tossing it. In fact, sometimes we're like, get this away from me. It stinks. It's ugly. But then there are things in our life that we're like, “Oh no, no, I can't let go of this.”

[00:37:04] Paul Granger: Like I spent years saving this money or, you know, I, this thing is so valuable to me. And the moments that we're grasping hold is ultimately us saying, but Jesus, you're not as valuable as these things. The flip side, the invitation is to say, Jesus, you are so valuable that this thing that is, is so important to me, I will lay it down because compared to you, it's nothing.

[00:37:32] Paul Granger: So, so that's one piece, right? This idea of not just loss but seeing it in the full perspective of what it actually is in comparison to Christ. And then the other thing that I was thinking is the invitation to get outside of our bubble. So you were talking about your kids and they're like, well, the neighbors have this, and the neighbors have that.

[00:37:51] Paul Granger: And we all struggle with this, right? Like the idea of keeping up with the Joneses. We, we compare ourselves. This is where financial frustration comes in. We see what we think we should have because others have it and we're frustrated. And One of the things that Jesus blessed the disciples with, and actually, and I feel like God's blessed my family with, is being able to get outside of their bubble.

[00:38:13] Paul Granger: So they had always just known their one demographic, and then Jesus led them to encounters with Samaritans. Those with leprosy. Everyone from tax collectors to those that didn't even have a penny to their name. He led them to interactions with everyone, so their understanding of reality broadened out. Oh yeah, my neighbors have a pool.

[00:38:36] Paul Granger: This person doesn't even have a home, right? And so this is, you know, I mentioned how God's blessed my family. We have a number of relationships with neighbors that are navigating a lot of hardship. One of the things I'm so excited about for my kids is they have a friendship with a neighbor who up until last week had been unsheltered for large chunks of his life.

[00:38:58] Paul Granger: And they have been able to not just encounter him but develop a relationship and know him in a way that was beyond just homeless guy, but they know him by name. They've seen him come and bless us with, He served us in beautiful ways. And so now their understanding of home, of what they should have, of what they should expect for their life is broadened out because yes, they know people that go on the Disney vacations every year. That have a pool in their backyard.

[00:39:27] Paul Granger: And they know people that are crowded into one room. You know, or that don't have a room at all, or that have not left the city that they were born in. And so broadening our bubble helps us to get outside of our mindset of this is how life is supposed to be. This is what I deserve. So how can we do that in a healthy way?

[00:39:49] Paul Granger: So it's not a performative thing. So it's not a dishonoring thing. How can we broaden our bubble of what life looks like?

[00:39:56] Ralph Estep, Jr.: I think the first thing while you were talking, it occurred to me. Think about who Jesus called to be disciples. He didn't call Kings and rulers and the wise and all this kind of people.

[00:40:07] Ralph Estep, Jr.: He picked tax collectors, people who fished. I mean, think about it. That's what he picked. So guess what? That's the people that are in the kingdom, right? So they're all around us and it's hard. Like, I mean, you, we live in a bubble. I mean, that's just a fact, right? I think you have to, if I'm a parent, I think you have to open up your children to have an experience that you probably, you know, a little bit hesitant to do.

[00:40:33] Ralph Estep, Jr.: You know, and take them places where they're going to see the reality of this world. And, you know, as an example, like, I'll give you a great example of this. I had never been overseas traveling. And this past October, my oldest son is in the U. S. Coast Guard and him and my wife and I, we took a trip to Germany.

[00:40:51] Ralph Estep, Jr.: And, you know, you hear about the Holocaust. You'd hear about what a terrible thing that was. Well, guess what, Paul? We went to Munich, and we went to Dachau, one of the first concentration camps. And it changed me because I stood inside this concentration. I camp and I said, man, Ralph, look at how much you have in life.

[00:41:15] Ralph Estep, Jr.: Right? And I'm thinking now I'm a Jewish guy and I'm standing in this concentration camp. I can't look up because if I look up, I get shot. Right? I can't have anything in my pockets because I have pockets. I'll get shot. Then I go into a dormitory where there's 3 or 400 people stacked into a spot where there'd normally be five.

[00:41:35] Ralph Estep, Jr.: And so, you know, I say all that only to know that you have to experience those things. You have to see them first. Like I had no concept of what that was till I was boots on the ground there. And I stood there on that looking around going, I can't even imagine, like, what that must have felt like.

[00:41:51] Ralph Estep, Jr.: Right? And so I think we have to challenge ourselves to go do that. Like, my aunt, she became a missionary. She went to Haiti. She went to where literally there were people doing voodoo curses against her.

[00:42:03] Ralph Estep, Jr.: You know, but she, she learned so much from that. She's passed away from that mess now, but I think we have to experience those things, and we have to get outside of our comfort zone.

[00:42:12] Ralph Estep, Jr.: If that means, I'm not saying that everybody needs to go join a missionary and become a, you know, overseas missionary. But take a trip somewhere or maybe do some in state missionary. You know, go find somebody that's not as well off as you and just sit with them for a little bit. Talk about their life experience, you know, because if you don't, you're not going to see the reality of this world.

[00:42:36] Ralph Estep, Jr.: And the reality of this world is, and people don't get this as Americans, like they, they complain. You have no clue how lucky you are to be born in America. You have no idea. Yeah, there's homelessness here. There's people who can't eat. I get it, but you have no concept of what that looks like overseas.

[00:42:53] Ralph Estep, Jr.: But the thing is, like, like you said, Paul, though, if you haven't experienced that, you haven't seen what that looks like, you're not going to know that. So I think that's one of the challenges. I think you've got to go find opportunities to put yourself in a very uncomfortable position, because I think that's where God's going to speak to you.

[00:43:11] Ralph Estep, Jr.: And he goes, see, like he did to me. I'm standing in the concentration camp and he's going, think about all you have, Ralph. Now, put yourself in this position where this guy, literally on the way into the concentrate stripped of anything that makes them a human. I mean, that's a fact. That's what they did.

[00:43:28] Ralph Estep, Jr.: They stripped them of anything to be a human, right? And look at how much you have, Ralph. And God spoke to me and said, Ralph, he says, listen, and it's funny because I came back, and I started my podcast. I had been doing it before in November. And he spoke to me, and he said, Ralph, he says, yeah, you know how to talk about finances is about one.

[00:43:45] Ralph Estep, Jr.: I'm going to tell you to do something a little bit different. I want you to take that step and go in the Christian finance. And everybody's saying to me, “Oh, Ralph, man, people are, you're going to lose clients over that. Do you like, people are going to be like, what, what is, what has Ralph gotten? He's a Bible beater now.”

[00:43:59] Ralph Estep, Jr.: What in the world happened? It's like, I'd like to think that I made that decision. Like you talked about, I said, you know what? If I lose clients over it, okay. You know, if I lose friends over it, okay. But guess what? What I've gained is so much greater than that. But like I said, getting back to your question, I apologize.

[00:44:19] Ralph Estep, Jr.: I went down around the block there. But I think you have to put yourself in positions where you experience that and you don't have to go like you said, you don't have to go across the world to get to that. Maybe it's your neighbor. Maybe it's the person that lives down the road from you. Encourage your children to be involved.

[00:44:37] Ralph Estep, Jr.: We live in a dangerous world. So at the same time, you got to be real careful, you know, because you don't want to put yourself in a bad spot. But I think there are ways to do it. You know, talk to your church, talk about the missionaries who are, you know, in the United States, go sit with them and talk to them about what's going on.

[00:44:51] Ralph Estep, Jr.: Because it's going to open your eyes to a whole new world that you don't have any concept of. And those people are, they need that love from Christ also.

[00:45:01] Paul Granger: Yeah. Well, you know, you were talking about this idea of Christian finance, and people are broadly on board with that. Christians are broadly on board for that.

[00:45:14] Paul Granger: But the elephant in the room is the passage where the rich young man comes to Jesus. And he says to him, sell everything you have and give it to the poor. And I think that's what frightens us sometimes, is we are desirous of seeking Jesus, but man, what if he asks me to give up everything? To give it up and give it to people who maybe I don't think deserve it.

[00:45:39] Paul Granger: Maybe I think haven't earned it or whatever my issue is, but then I have nothing. Now I am in that position. Now I have nothing. And this idea of lost. You know, if Jesus spoke to you in a vision tonight and said, Ralph, sell it all, give it away. Like, people wrestle with that. Why is it that Jesus, relationship with him, relationship with God is actually more valuable than everything? Than winning the lottery, than having all your plans work out. Why is that more valuable?

[00:46:13] Ralph Estep, Jr.: So Paul, I'm going to rock your world. I'm going to give you the answer to that one. That's an easy one because guess what? It wasn't yours in the first place.

[00:46:21] Ralph Estep, Jr.: It was never yours. See, that's the paradigm shift you have to have. You got to realize that everything you have is not yours. It's gifted to you by God to use for him, to use for your family, but it's not yours. And so if you start off with the understanding that you're not really losing anything. It was entrusted to you in the first place.

[00:46:45] Ralph Estep, Jr.: Again, Paul, I'm not going to lie to you. That's easy to say, right? Cause you know, guys never spoke to me and like, Ralph, sell everything you have and go feed the poor. Maybe he has. I don't know. But I think it's all about that paradigm. It's that paradigm of like, what I have is not mine. Yeah. You know, you're entrusted to, I think it talks about the talents in the Bible, right.

[00:47:09] Ralph Estep, Jr.: You know, and he gave each of these talents and they put it to work. So I think if you are a successful person, if you're a person that's driven and all that, I think the best way to do it, I'd say, okay, cool. God gave me this money. God gave me these talents. God gave me this, this, this, this work is this ethic.

[00:47:24] Ralph Estep, Jr.: All these things. He gave me all these skills. Like I'm going to put them to work and I'm not working for me. I'm working for him because here's the thing I noticed. Like I do the finances for our church, and we needed a new lawnmower like a month ago. And the pastor and I were talking about money's kind of tight this year.

[00:47:39] Ralph Estep, Jr.: Giving's been down a little bit. In fact, he and I have a meeting every Friday. We have one this morning. And we were talking about, we got 0 percent financing for this new mower. I was like, well, that's fantastic. Well, they brought it up to the congregation and guess what? A guy raised his hand and said, “I’ll pay for the whole thing.”

[00:47:55] Ralph Estep, Jr.: Is that, is that feeding the poor? No. But did God give that person the ability to achieve and the ability to earn? Because he knew that on that Sunday night business meeting, he was going to raise his hand and say, guess what? Don't worry about that. I got it. So that's how I balanced that because I did a show that's going to come out this Sunday, all about that like how do I balance that whole faith and having stuff and being successful and all this kind of stuff. And I think it all starts with a paradigm shift of it's not yours. It's entrusted to you. And if it's not yours, it's entrusted to you, I think you look at it, you got to look at it a little differently, right?

[00:48:37] Ralph Estep, Jr.: Like when, I remember as a kid, like I borrow a friend's toy or something like that. Right. And my mother would say to me, look, you know, that's Joe's toy, Ralph. So don't be bashing that like you bash your toys up.

[00:48:47] Paul Granger: Yeah,

[00:48:48] Ralph Estep, Jr.: well, yeah, because it wasn't mine. Right. It was entrusted to me. It's like, I remember it is probably going to date me a little bit.

[00:48:54] Ralph Estep, Jr.: You used to go to the video store and rent videotapes, right? You bring them home, put them into VCR and you always remember, cause there'd be a sticker on there, be kind, rewind. We can all remember it. We can all relate to that. Right. You didn't take that tape and smash it on the top of the counter. You know, you didn't throw it in this, it wasn't yours, right?

[00:49:12] Ralph Estep, Jr.: You were renting it. Maybe our finances need to be seen the same way. We're renting our finances. It's a funny way to say it, but it's not ours. And that's why I use that word stewardship. You're stewarding those resources. So does that, does that help you in the, I don't know. I think it's an answer. Like I said, I don't have all the answers.

[00:49:31] Paul Granger: Yeah.

[00:49:32] Ralph Estep, Jr.: I can tell you to pray about it. I can tell you about, you know, it's okay to be successful, but it's how you choose to use that success. If you turn your, if you turn a blind eye to people who need your help, you're like right now, our church is going through a time where giving's down. And I have a very frank conversation with the pastor.

[00:49:50] Ralph Estep, Jr.: I said, maybe you need to stand up front and say, listen up folks. You want to have a church? Time to start bringing some money in. They'll be oh, you know, Ralph, you can't talk about that. I said, yeah, but it's a reality. The reality is to open up that door of that church every Sunday, it costs X number of dollars.

[00:50:04] Ralph Estep, Jr.: If there's 200 butts in the seats, divide that number by that. That's how much every person needs to give. And then you and I both know, 10% are going to give 90%, but whatever. But like how many times that people walk into a church building and like, oh yeah, I see a tithing. Yeah. Whatever.

[00:50:19] Ralph Estep, Jr.: Puts her $5 in the collection plate. It amazes me, Paul, like I'll have clients that will come in and they'll say I'm doing their taxes. And I'll say, I'll get to that question. Like, did you do any charitable contributions? Oh yeah. Ralph, you'll never, I gave a ton this year. And I'll say to them, well, how much was that?

[00:50:33] Ralph Estep, Jr.: I mean, I gave $2,000 I said, that's awesome. Of course, they made $400,000. And I look at them like, now I'm not going to sit there and judge them. That's not my role, right? It's not my place to judge them. Now, if they ask me, do you think that's reasonable based on my income? I'd be like, yeah, probably need to add a zero to the end there.

[00:50:51] Ralph Estep, Jr.: But see, that's the whole thing is people's perception about that. So that's the problem is you got to get past that it's mine and I'm going to use it for me to that reality, that paradigm shift of it's not mine. I've been entrusted with it. And I'm going to use it for what the kingdom needs or what God wants me to use it for.

[00:51:10] Paul Granger: Yeah. Yeah. So the finances aren't yours, but what is yours is the relationship with the financier, you know, the relationship with the provider. And what's beautiful is if the provider is the one who owns those finances, he can choose to increase them or decrease them, but that doesn't change your situation ultimately, your situation eternally.

[00:51:33] Paul Granger: Now, on a human level, we think it does. If I don't have enough money, then I can't get what I want. If I don't have enough money, then it's going to put me at risk. But if we have that eternal mindset, and we actually trust that God, the provider, can and will meet our needs as needs to be met, then we don't have to operate in this financial fear.

[00:51:52] Paul Granger: And things work differently. There's another passage that I pulled up where basically his disciples are like, we've left everything to follow you. Like we gave up everything we had, all our money, our business that we built up for generations, like all of it. So what will there be then for us?

[00:52:10] Paul Granger: And Jesus says to them, and I'm going to fast forward, this is Matthew 19, starting in verse 29. And everyone who has left houses, or brothers, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or fields, for my sake, will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life. And so our human minds are thinking, “Oh man, so if I gave away one house and I gained back a hundred fold, then Jesus' saying, I'm good a hundred houses.”

[00:52:37] Paul Granger: You don't see that in scripture. Not in the traditional way. Peter didn't end up with a whole compound, but you know what he did end up with? In Acts, we see it describing the Acts church and it said everyone had everything in common. And those who had homes and money, they sold it and gave it. So essentially, everything that the disciples gave up in the Acts Church, they received a hundredfold through this community.

[00:53:01] Paul Granger: And so that's the thing. God does provide, but he's not providing in the way we necessarily want him to or expect him to. He's actually providing in a way that leads to a fuller life. They are now invited to this beautiful community, rather than if Peter had gotten a hundred-fold house, he's like, all right, I'm retiring now.

[00:53:18] Paul Granger: I'm just going to go to my, you know, see a Galilee house and lay up. And so again, it brings us back to this idea of what do we actually believe about God? What do we actually believe about money? Which one realistically is our master? And so, you know, I love what you've painted here for us is that everyone's situation and story is going to be different, but that invitation of seeking God is the same.

[00:53:41] Paul Granger: And it sounds like a core piece of this and why God's invited you to your ministry is God is not expecting us to do this by ourselves, but he's putting people like you and others so that we in community can discern and learn together.

[00:53:56] Ralph Estep, Jr.: Absolutely. And you know, and it's, I want to go back to something you just said, and I've known some really wealthy people, and they are some of the most unhappy people I've ever met in my life.

[00:54:06] Ralph Estep, Jr.: And it's sad, but then I've also met people who are superiorly wealthy, and they give more than you can ever imagine. Like you have no concept of what they do. Yeah. So it's, yeah, it's tough. I mean, listen. I say that the Christian invitation is simple. The invitation is simple. The implementation, not so simple.

[00:54:26] Ralph Estep, Jr.: And you've got to surround yourself with people. This is one of the things I talk about in my show all the time. If you're going to be successful in your Christian finance walk or your Christian Walk, the key is to pray. The key is to reflect. And the other big thing is to surround yourself with people to support you.

[00:54:43] Ralph Estep, Jr.: You need accountability partners. You need like-minded people who are going to build you up when you have a rough day. Or maybe you build them up when they have a rough day. And that's what you're getting at. It's that early church was all about community. It was all about, and think about how cool that is, right?

[00:54:59] Ralph Estep, Jr.: Because more and more in our world right now, we're living in these silos of aloneness, right? We're in front of our phone and we're chatting with people, but do we really have a connection with them? Do we really have that relationship with them? But think about how cool it is when we get to heaven, right?

[00:55:13] Ralph Estep, Jr.: Heaven's going to be one big block party in my opinion. It really is. It's going to be a community of people who made that decision to follow the Savior. And he's going to be there with us. You know, one of the coolest things I think I talk about, I think about all the time is like, it talks about in the Bible when one is saved, there's a big party that goes on. We'll just think about that party being for eternity.

[00:55:34] Paul Granger: Well, if somebody wanted to dive deeper into this idea of faith and finance, you're doing a lot right now to create those pathways. So how could somebody connect with you and what you're doing?

[00:55:46] Ralph Estep, Jr.: Easiest thing to do is go to my podcast website. That's really simple. It's askralphpodcast. com. It's really that simple. And you'll see all my catalog. I do a daily episode. I do an audio version. I do a video version, which get released on YouTube and Rumble. I do YouTube shorts. I do reels, but more importantly than that, I write a blog article.

[00:56:08] Ralph Estep, Jr.: I want to hear from people. You know, there's a little microphone icon on there where you can record a message and say, Ralph, “Hey, listen. I don't know anything about anything, but like, I just got this letter and I have no concept what to do.” That's what I love to do. I like to help people. So if you've got a question about, you know, what tithing look like, or, you know, it doesn't have to be religious even. It could be something like Ralph. Look, I just recorded a show last week. Came out, yesterday about or today actually. Should I put a down payment when I buy a car? That's a legitimate question. Right? So those are the type of things I answered, but just really simple. askralphpodcast.com. If you want to schedule time with me, you can schedule an appointment with me right there. I work with people all over the world. Cause the Zoom has, but it's all in each other's yards. So as much as, like I said, we're siloed into these little aloneness things, it's really open up a lot of doors, but that's the easiest way to get in touch with me.

[00:56:58] Ralph Estep, Jr.: And like I said, I'm on all the podcast platforms. I'm on, you know, Apple, Spotify, you name them. I'm on all of them. And it's a daily thing. And it might, you know, every episode might not be for you, you know, today's episode.

[00:57:10] Ralph Estep, Jr.: They’ll be like, yeah, I have no interest in that at all Ralph. But just go on to the next one.

[00:57:14] Paul Granger: That's good. And as we close out, is there anything else that God's putting in your heart that you feel led to share?

[00:57:20] Ralph Estep, Jr.: I think God is putting on my heart to share that we're not in this alone. Find people like Paul, find people like me, who you can, you know, learn from, that you can, cause look, Paul and Ralph don't have all the answers either.

[00:57:34] Ralph Estep, Jr.: And I hate, I don't, I don't want to speak for Paul, but guess what, Paul, you don't have all the answers.

[00:57:38] Paul Granger: I don't have all the answers.

[00:57:39] Ralph Estep, Jr.: Ralph doesn’t have all the answers either. So, and that's the thing I'll say to people is don't rely on one person. And one of the things my grandfather used to say to me, and I'll end with this.

[00:57:49] Ralph Estep, Jr.: He would say to me, when you go to church on Sunday, write down the scriptures, the pastor talks to the church. And then when you get home, verify what he said. And I'd be like, wow, that's kind of harsh. And I'm like, no, because think about this. You got to verify what people are saying. So surround yourself with people that will, what's the Bible say?

[00:58:08] Ralph Estep, Jr.: Iron sharpens iron. So find those people, find those people in your life. You will find, you know, it's kind of like the AA model, right? Alcoholics Anonymous. The whole thing about AA, the reason it works is because at one point you walk through that door. And you were the drunk and people were there to support you.

[00:58:29] Ralph Estep, Jr.: But what magically happens is when you're sober, now you're supporting them. Christianity is the same way. Grow your faith by surrounding yourself with people. And guess what? What'll happen eventually is you'll be the Pauls and the Ralphs. And then you'll be able to make an impact because that's what's God's calling you to.

[00:58:48] Ralph Estep, Jr.: That's what he's calling me to do. I really feel like my podcast is in, is evangelism. You know, and you know, he puts ideas in my head its like, sometimes like, well, that was a dud. That really didn't work. You know, but look, dude, I'm like an accountant by trade, but yet I'm talking about stuff that's like Christian stuff, man.

[00:59:08] Ralph Estep, Jr.: And that's cool. You know, and people are responding to it. Like I had a lady leave me a message a couple of weeks ago. It was the coolest thing. She says, Ralph. I felt like you were talking directly to me. And dude, I, you know, I can't, I can't touch that one, man. Right? Because guess what? The savior talks directly to me.

[00:59:27] Ralph Estep, Jr.: I'm not saying I'm Jesus by any stretch of the imagination, but if I'm helping people, like I said, a little while ago, if I'm helping one person take that step of faith and move into a place where they feel like they're doing better for themselves and amen, look. I get my check for today. Check the box, Ralph, and then tomorrow, guess what?

[00:59:45] Ralph Estep, Jr.: It starts all over again. That's the beauty of Christianity, man. You're never done. It's never enough. Like you're never, you know, you're never going to do enough until you stand before Christ and he says, well done, good and faithful servant. And even at that point, you're like, dude, it was You, man. It wasn't me.

[01:00:05] Ralph Estep, Jr.: It was you the whole time. And he's going to say, you know what, Ralph? It was me the whole time dude, but I lived through you. And that's a cool thing.

[01:00:11] Ralph Estep, Jr.: Now, listen, as we wrap up today, I hope this episode has given you some real food for thought about how you can live out your faith even within your finances. Remember, as I always say, it's a journey and every small step counts. And if you're feeling inspired to take your financial stewardship to the next level, I would love to give you some help. You can schedule a personal consultation with me at askralphpodcast.com/store.

[01:00:39] Ralph Estep, Jr.: And for just $150, I'll work with you to create a personalized plan that aligns your finances with your faith and helps you achieve your goals. Now, whether that's your personal finances, if you're looking at your overall financial wellbeing, maybe we need to talk about your business finances or business growth,

[01:00:57] Ralph Estep, Jr.: I am here to guide you every step of the way. Now, make sure you tune in tomorrow, we'll be tackling another important question. And that is how do I find joy in the mundane? It's a topic that touches all areas of our life, including our finances. So you don't want to miss it. Remember this, my passion is to help you achieve financial success.

[01:01:16] Ralph Estep, Jr.: I want you to live out your dreams, and I want you to grow in your faith. I know that working together, we can master your finances from a Christian perspective. So as I always say, stay financially savvy and God bless you abundantly.